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2022-08-27
A thread from admins who use the Mailman robot to run lists,
naming junk providers who periodicaly break.
2019-03-26
- Yahoo are screwing up Yet Again, bought by some
company called Oath. Yawn! Plus ca meme Chose ! Just
dump Yahoo !
- List Owner: Hi, Yahoo screwing around again: If you have
a non yahoo address please subscribe that instead.
- A List Member: I only have Yahoo addresses and
have had problems the last 2 days. I have refused a lot of
Oath and their partner requests but I do not wish to receive
their ads so I don't have a solution. I will write to Yahoo
support telling them the problem . I've been receiving blank
emails from companies I have received emails from from the
USA for the last 10 years without a problem. So please try
again in a few days. Thanks
- List Owner: Thanks for the background. I suggest get
another free account on another provider, ask friends for
reccomendations.
Every few years Yahoo screws up yet again, I've had a
warning against Yahoo on Berklix pages maybe a decade now. http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/mail/yahoo
If yahoo users stop getting mail from berklix lists, it wont
be my decision, the robot will decide all on its own. it
suspends people after a while if they bounce, then removes
them a while later if still bouncing.
I couldnt tell you numeric decision parameters offhand,
Berklix just uses standard default numbers deemed by global
consensus of Mailman develpers as right for average mail
lists, I've not altered them for Berklix.
Summary pre 2019-03
- Yahoo & Hotmail mail users who send or receive
mail to/from any address (personal or list ) @Berklix should enlist from a new
address from a new provider other than Yahoo & Hotmail,
as all mail from @yahoo & @hotmail.com will be dumped
soon by Berklix
.
- Yahoo & Hotmail users on lists on @Berklix should enlist themselves with a
non Yahoo & Hotmail address.
-
Why:
- The Berklix
mail list robot,
Mailman has already started automatically
unsubscribing Yahoo people: ( first was a Berklix event
organiser <-- helga from bg-org@ --> in Nov. 2016,
as Yahoo emitted too much noise back to Berklix server
(presumably one per list posting); That person subscribed
a better Non Yahoo address.
- All Yahoo & Hotmail addresses will be deleted
from all Berklix
lists ;
Yahoo & Hotmail is no longer acceptable. Mail from
Yahoo & Hotmail to Berklix will be dropped by
Berklix. To avoid
Yahoo & Hotmail users thus being trapped on Berklix lists ,
unable to mail change requests to the old Berklix list robot (Now superceded
by new Mailman),
they will be removed from Berklix lists
before the block is implemented.
- Please unlist your @yahoo & @hotmail address,
& enlist with some better address, If you take no
action, you will be removed, & no longer able to mail
to or from @Berklix
people or lists .
What's The Problem ?
- Yahoo previously blocked abuse@yahoo.com from accepting
back spam sent from their site, forwarded back to Yahoo in
the same format rogue spammers on Yahoo excreted it.
- Yahoo demanded innocent recipient domain postmasters
waste our time=money wrapping up excrement from Yahoo spammer
customers in "Abuse Reporting Format", to save Yahoo their
time & money, at our expense
- Yahoo then blocked their postmaster@yahoo.com, which per
RFC etc is supposed
to be a human who can deal with problems.
- Yahoo & Hotmail have now withdrawn their postmaster@,
now auto responding, requiring innocent postmasters waste
More of their time with Yahoo & Hotmail web pages even if
they're not customers of these excrement emitting
providers.
Why Is The Problem Being Responded To Now ?
Yahoo were allowed many months to return to reason, &
deal with their own problems. We've waited long enough. It's
necessary to deal with Yahoo & Hotmail, before other mail
providers might get tempted to also dump their work on
innocent recipient domain postmasters.
What You Must Do If You Use Yahoo & Hotmail to
access Berklix
Get a mail address with a more responsible mail provider.
that has humans manning their postmaster@ & abuse@
addresses. There's plenty of free providers. Ask friends
for suggestions. Enlist your new address to lists
& remove your Yahoo & Hotmail address from those
lists
(if your Yahoo & Hotmail address hasn't already been
purged).
Will It Affect Just Yahoo.com, or also Yahoo.de,
Yahoo.co.uk & Yahoo.fr etc ?
It depends how obdurate Yahoo are. The situation might be
different or might change with European subsidiaries.
Maybe Yahoo.com USA policy may be more aggressive than
tolerated in Europe, USA Yahoo might or not have the
nerve to coerce European subsidiaries. Maybe as press
reports Yahoo is in financial crisis USA might at some
stage merge domains on to common server IP numbers, if
they do, that will mean more Yahoo mail being
rejected.
If in doubt demand of your part of Yahoo if they already
have or intend to block abuse@ & postmaster@.
Yahoo Honk Kong will be blocked (if not already), as
so far it has emitted only spam to this domain.
Administration of this domain :
- Will not work unpaid for Yahoo & Hotmail, Not to
increase Yahoo & Hotmail profit, to decrease their loss,
to subsidise their lay off programme,
or any other reason.
- Will not waste time converting spam from Yahoo &
Hotmail to spam report format RFC5965 before
returning it to abuse@yahoo.
- Will not waste time unpaid, reading the RFC , & searching for
free source based automatic tools that will convert a format
from MUA
(= Mailer User Agent)s eg EXMH to SRF.
- Are not paid to admin this domain, it runs lots of free
lists all
with no advertising funding. No money is paid by anyone to
fund time to waste working unpaid for Yahoo &
Hotmail.
- Will not work harder so Yahoo & Hotmail can earn more
money by cutting its staffing costs. Yahoo & Hotmail
etc's should deal with their own problem, & implement a
robot behind their abuse@yahoo.com to filter forwarded spam
into whatever format they might want. Not our responsibility
to work unpaid for commercial providers that also emit
spam.
.....
- It's fundamentally Wrong for a commercial provider, a
source also of spam, to force their work of processing spam
from their site, to unpaid administrators of innocent
recipient domains of spam.
- Was the RFC
commissioned, or sponsored by people un-representative of or
ignoring the wider _Free_ Internet ? Dominated perhaps by
representatives of commercial ISPs like Yahoo & Hotmail,
making money on advertising, assuming paid administrators
were each end of every email server ?
- If a dog excretes on the pavement, it's the owner's
responsibility to remove excretia, not a pedestrian's
responsibility to box up the excretia stuck on his shoe,
carefully documenting the excretia in a format acceptable to
the person who houses the dog.
- Yahoo & Hotmail would have innocent recipients bear
the burden of formatting into SRF, what some of their users
who are spammers excrete.
- At
Dec. 2010 Yahoo is laying off 500 staff, ie 4% How many
used to deal with abuse@ mail ? How much of Yahoo work is now
dumped on us, unpaid ?
A quick search for SRF tools
- Does not seem to have found free source tools easily to
hand ready to integrate into eg, EXMH & Claws, to forward
a spam in RFC5965 to an
abuse@ISP.
- So Yahoo & Hotmail will be listed as a spammer
domain, to dump all mail from Yahoo & Hotmail, to avoid
unpaid work Yahoo & Hotmail demands.
- Innocent people with @yahoo & @hotmail addresses will
need to be removed from lists. Innocent
personal recipients @mailman.Berklix.org will
unfortunately not receive personal mail from innocent senders
@yahoo & @hotmail.
Timescale:
- Yahoo gave no warning that was noticed in email response
of past reports to abuse@, that they would enforce this RFC in X months
time.
- Yahoo were warned, but did not respond. The contagion
needs to be excised before it might spread, tempting more
responsible mail operators.
- Those on any lists on @Berklix are requested to remove
any @yahoo & @hotmail address, & enlist some other
address.
Mail List Threads
Mail List Archive Copies
-
From owner-freebsd-hackers@@@freebsd.org Tue Dec 21 11:07:23 2010
Message-Id: <201012210101.oBL117OZ005993@@@fire.js.berklix.net>
To: hackers@@@freebsd.org
From: "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs_ERASE_@berklix.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 02:01:07 +0100
Subject: Forward to abuse@@@ button for http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5965
Hi hackers@@@,
No reply to this on <isp@@@freebsd.org> , so asking on this bigger list
--------------
I just posted a question [see below] to exmh-users@@@redhat.com,
A similar question extends for nmh & claws-mail etc:
Any tools to auto forward spam into RFC5965 format for abuse@@@ ?
] To: exmh-users@@@redhat.com
] Subject: Forward to abuse@@@ button for http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5965 ?
] Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 13:11:41 +0100
]
] Anyone working on an extension to EXMH 2.7.2 01/07/2005 to support
] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5965
] (spam report format) ?
]
] I just got this bounced back to me:
] --------
] Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 13:44:15 -0800
] To: "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs_ERASE_@berklix.com>
] Subject: RE: File for your claim! (fwd) (KMM120695297V22240L0KM)
] From: Yahoo! Mail <abuse@@@yahoo.com>
] Reply-To: Yahoo! Mail <abuse@@@yahoo.com>
] MIME-Version: 1.0
] Content-Type: text/plain; charset = "us-ascii"
] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
] X-Mailer: KANA Response 7.0.1.142.15
]
] Thank you for your email, but this address now only accepts messages in
] Abuse Reporting Format (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5965)
]
] To report abuse manually (or to get help with security or abuse related
] issues), please go to Yahoo! Abuse:
] http://abuse.yahoo.com
]
] For questions about using Yahoo! services, please visit Yahoo Help:
] http://help.yahoo.com
]
] Thank you,
] - Yahoo! Customer Care
]
] Note: Please do not reply to this email as replies will not be answered.
] --------
PS Spot the connection ?
Yahoo dumps anti spam work on unpaid suckers. Yahoo lays off 4% of staff,
http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/mail/no_rfc5965.html
-
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 07:56:10 -1000
From: Clifton Royston <cliftonr@@@lava.net>
To: "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs_ERASE_@berklix.com>
Cc: hackers@@@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Forward to abuse@@@ button for http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5965
Message-ID: <20101221175610.GC28185@@@lava.net>
> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 02:01:07 +0100
> From: "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs_ERASE_@berklix.com>
> Subject: Forward to abuse@@@ button for
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5965
> To: hackers@@@freebsd.org
> Message-ID: <201012210101.oBL117OZ005993@@@fire.js.berklix.net>
>
> Hi hackers@@@,
..
> I just posted a question [see below] to exmh-users@@@redhat.com,
>
> A similar question extends for nmh & claws-mail etc:
> Any tools to auto forward spam into rfc5965 format for abuse@@@ ?
>
> ] To: exmh-users@@@redhat.com
..
> ] From: Yahoo! Mail <abuse@@@yahoo.com>
> ] Reply-To: Yahoo! Mail <abuse@@@yahoo.com>
> ] MIME-Version: 1.0
> ] Content-Type: text/plain; charset = "us-ascii"
> ] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> ] X-Mailer: KANA Response 7.0.1.142.15
> ]
> ] Thank you for your email, but this address now only accepts messages in
> ] Abuse Reporting Format (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5965)
> ]
> ] To report abuse manually (or to get help with security or abuse related
> ] issues), please go to Yahoo! Abuse:
> ] http://abuse.yahoo.com
> ]
> ] For questions about using Yahoo! services, please visit Yahoo Help:
> ] http://help.yahoo.com
> ]
> ] Thank you,
> ] - Yahoo! Customer Care
> ]
> ] Note: Please do not reply to this email as replies will not be answered.
> ] --------
>
> PS Spot the connection ?
> Yahoo dumps anti spam work on unpaid suckers. Yahoo lays off 4% of staff,
> http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/mail/no_rfc5965.html
>
> Cheers,
> Julian
Julian,
The only reference I've seen to date on a public tool for ARF
formatting are Perl modules - Mail::ARF, Email::ARF, and MIME::ARF; but
you should be able to craft something with those. ARF is a variation
on the previously existing MIME Multipart/Report format, so you can
also look at any MIME generation tools which play well with exmh.
Email::ARF is on CPAN and a link to MIME::ARF can be found here:
http://wordtothewise.com/resources/arfdeveloper.html
John Levine, a long-time FreeBSD user and Internet mail guru, was one
of the developers who helped work it through the IETF, so I did some
searches on his site (Google search on: "arf site:jl.ly" but don't find
anything specifically about tools.
However, I can also inform you that that even if you submit a
properly formatted ARF report, a good fraction of the time Yahoo! may
still bounce it indicating that you must submit an ARF report. I have
seen a number of reports of that. Outsourcing, I'm sure. (They also
have been known to firmly claim that a number of Yahoo's mail outbounds
are not their servers.) AOL will actually process ARF messages and so
will some other major providers, so it's still worth doing.
-- Clifton
--
Clifton Royston -- cliftonr@@@iandicomputing.com / cliftonr@@@lava.net
postmaster@yahoo.com also crippled by January 2012
From no-reply@cc.yahoo-inc.com Fri Jan 27 12:15:14 2012
Received: from support2.corp.yahoo.com
(support2.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.57])
(envelope-from no-reply@cc.yahoo-inc.com)
Received: from support2.corp.yahoo.com (localhost
[127.0.0.1])
by support2.corp.yahoo.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/support2) with
ESMTP id q0RB4IOM064196
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 03:04:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: support2.corp.yahoo.com: ccpop23
set sender to no-reply@cc.yahoo-inc.com using -f
Errors-To: <no-reply@cc.yahoo-inc.com>
From: <no-reply@cc.yahoo-inc.com>
This is an automated response; please do not reply to this
email as replies will not be answered.
To get help with postmaster- or delivery-related related
issues with Yahoo! Mail, service providers and mail
administrators should visit http://postmaster.yahoo.com.
To report spam, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/Yahoo/mail/Yahoomail/spam.html.
Finally, for service providers who want to send automated
abuse reports in the Abuse Reporting Format (ARF) involving
Yahoo! Mail accounts, you may send them to abuse@yahoo.com
and they will be processed automatically.
Thank you,
Yahoo! Customer Care
Do Not Mail From or Join from @yahoo.com To Berklix
At 30th March 2012 Yahoo are still irresponsibly excreting spam
by mail, & not accepting its return by same method: SMTP
mail, not web http://. So Yahoo are about to be dumped by
Berklix, ie All Yahoo addresses will be forcibly removed from
all Berklix lists, & all Yahoo addresses will be blocked
from sending to any Berklix domain.
From postmaster@hotmail.com Wed Jul 11 10:05:07 2012
Received: from BAY0-XMR-018.phx.gbl (bay0-memlet39.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.241.178])
by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q6B80ZvH023805
for <jhs_ERASE_@berklix.com>; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 08:00:35 GMT
(envelope-from postmaster@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by BAY0-XMR-018.phx.gbl with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
Wed, 11 Jul 2012 01:00:28 -0700
To: jhs_ERASE_@berklix.com
From: Windows Live Hotmail <postmaster@hotmail.com>
Subject: (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
References: <201207110801.q6B81O7b055284@fire.js.berklix.net>
Message-ID: <BAY0-XMR-018i8XKPl500054edd@BAY0-XMR-018.phx.gbl>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2012 08:00:28.0970 (UTC) FILETIME=[3CB338A0:01CD5F3B]
Date: 11 Jul 2012 01:00:28 -0700
postmaster@hotmail.com is an unmonitored account. If you need assistance, please consult our help pages or visit http://postmaster.live.com.
Thank You,
Windows Live Hotmail Staff
From MAILER-DAEMON@tower.berklix.org Wed Jul 11 11:00:11 2012
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 08:55:51 GMT
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@tower.berklix.org>
To: <jhs_ERASE_@berklix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
boundary="q6B8tpoF024086.1341996951/tower.berklix.org"
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)
This is a MIME-encapsulated message
- --q6B8tpoF024086.1341996951/tower.berklix.org
The original message was received at Wed, 11 Jul 2012 08:55:49 GMT
from pD9FBE2EE.dip.t-dialin.net [217.251.226.238]
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<hostmaster@hotmail.com>
(reason: 550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
.. while talking to mx3.hotmail.com.:
>>> DATA
<<< 550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable
550 5.1.1 <hostmaster@hotmail.com> User unknown
<<< 503 Need Rcpt command.
- --q6B8tpoF024086.1341996951/tower.berklix.org
Content-Type: message/delivery-status
Reporting-MTA: dns; tower.berklix.org
Received-From-MTA: DNS; pD9FBE2EE.dip.t-dialin.net
Arrival-Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 08:55:49 GMT
Final-Recipient: RFC822; hostmaster@hotmail.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mx3.hotmail.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable
Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 08:55:50 GMT
- --q6B8tpoF024086.1341996951/tower.berklix.org
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Return-Path: <jhs_ERASE_@berklix.com>
"Windows Live ?" - Is that Microsoft ?
Seen the greedy giant advertising on German TV to
disgruntled employees, to please rat on their employers if
they'd seen bootleg software ? A creepy malicious smile on
that female !
Avoid licence costs & dangers, use Free Software.
Avoid crappy ISPs that irresponsibly fail to place humans on
their postmaster@ & abuse@ spam report addresses.
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